Questions and Answers

A well-informed reader asks the following:



 "I have a question. Bhisma was aware of the best time to leave his body, and therefore he waited for many weeks to die, waiting for the sun starting its uttarayana journey, from Capricorn to Cancer.

"The Bhagavad Gita mentions this uttarayana motion of the sun but my question is, "which Capricorn, the terrestrial or the celestial one?"

"Poetically Bhisma waiting to die is nice but astronomically is also relevant. In those days the winter solstice was on 4 November (now is on 21 December). The Kuruksetra War, according to my calculations started on 10 August 3,128 BC, the 14th dark tithi, and that was day
1. Bhisma fell on day 10 of that Battle or on 19 August. Therefore, he waited 77 days for the terrestrial winter solstice to happen. Some sources say 40 days and others say 58 days, but it could well be 77 days.

The relevant Sanskrit word in the Bhagavad Gita says 'jagat' meaning the terrestrial sky, which it makes sense as the terrestrial or tropical sky is called 'sayana' (with shelter) instead of celestial or sidereal sky called 'nirayana' (without shelter).

Humans are born in the terrestrial sky to have shelter and therefore I believe that Bhisma left his body on 4 November 3128 BC."

Thanks for your question. Let's take a look at the dates for the Mahābhārata war and the beginning of the Age of Kali.

Wikipedia tells me that

 "According to the Surya Siddhanta, Kali-Yuga began at midnight (00:00) on 18 February 3102 BCE. [4] [The footnote here cites Matchett, Freda, "The Puranas", p 139 and Yano, Michio, "Calendar, astrology and astronomy" in Flood, Gavin (Ed) (2003). Blackwell companion to Hinduism.]

This is also considered the date on which Lord Krishna left the earth to return to Vaikuntha.[5] [The footnote leads to an article in the Times of India." https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Lord-Krishna-lived-for-125-years/articleshow/844211.cms]

Bhishma would have left his body sometime before this, since Krishna leaves Kurukṣetra after Bhishma's death, by all accounts.  So, here the date 3102 BC is given.

This account appears to be coming from an ancient source: Aryabhatta. "According to the astronomer and mathematician Aryabhatta the Kali Yuga started in 3102 BCE. He finished his book “Aryabhattiya” in 499 CE, in which he gives the exact year of the beginning of Kali Yuga. He writes that he wrote the book in the "year 3600 of the Kali Age" at the age of 23. As it was the 3600th year of the Kali Age when he was 23 years old, and given that Aryabhatta was born in 476 CE, the beginning of the Kali Yuga would come to (3600 - (476 + 23) + 1 (As only one year elapses between 1 BCE and 1 CE) = ) 3102 BCE.^[6]"

As I said, I'm not an expert in astrology or astronomy; neither do I have any access to the critical source materials here.  
I can neither confirm or deny the information. 

An interesting account by Graham Hancock makes an attempt to link the beginning of Kali Yuga with the Mayan "Long Count" Calendar. Again, I have no real critical skills in the matter. 


He seems to take issue with Aryabhatta. 

" But when did the Kali Yuga begin? And when does it end? In spite of the elaborate theological framework which describes the characteristics of this age, the start and end dates of the Kali Yuga remain shrouded in mystery. The popularly accepted date for the beginning of the Kali Yuga is 3102 BC, thirty-five years after the conclusion of the great battle of the Mahabharata. This is remarkably close to the proposed beginning of the current “Great Cycle” of the Mayan Long Count Calendar in 3114 BC. It is of interest to note that in both of these cases the beginning dates of the respective cycles were calculated retrospectively. The Mayans had recomputed their ancient calendars sometime between 400 BC to 50 CE, at the ceremonial center of Izapa in Mexico, and fixed the starting date of the current Great Cycle of their Long Count Calendar. And in India, sometime around 500 CE, a major review of the Indian calendric systems had taken place. It was during this time that the renowned astronomer Aryabhatta had identified the beginning date of the Kali Yuga as 3102 BC. " https://grahamhancock.com/dmisrab6/



I've taken a look at these dates before on this blog. Here's a post:
post http://mexpostfact.blogspot.mx/2015/05/mahabharata-dates-and-narrators.html

As far as a date for the Kurukshetra War, or the Mahabharata goes, there is plenty of controversy. The critics always seem to argue for a later date. They like the idea that the Mahabharata is a derivitave work, with the Greek Iliad holding a higher place.

Dr. C.V. Vaidya of the University of Bombay writes in his 1905 publication, “The Mahabharata: A Criticism,” discusses a number of possible dates for the antiquity of the actual war described in Mahabharata.

He writes,”the earliest date assigned to the Mahabharata war is that fixed by Mr. Modak on the basis of some astronomical data found in the Mahabharata. He thinks that the vernal equinox at the time of the war was in in Punarvasu and hence about 7,000 years must have elapsed since then. Some thinkers, following the opinion of Varaha Mihira, believe that the battle was fought in 2604 B.C. European scholars on the other hand believe in the authority of a shloka in the Vishnu Purana that the war took place in about 1500 B.C. Mr. Dutta gives 1250 B.C. as the date of the Kuru Panchal war on the basis of the Magadha annals which show that thirty-five kings reigned in Magadha between the Kuru-Panchal war and the time of Buddha. …The orthodox opinion, however, is that the war took place in 3101 B.C., calculating on the basis of the generally accepted belief in India that in 1899 A.D., five thousand years had elapsed since the beginning of the Kali-age. We agree with this orthodox opinion on the basis of both internal and external evidence.”

Another source explains that the "orthodox opinion" seems to be based on modern consideration of astronomical proof giving the date that the Kurukshetra war ended and Kali-yuga began as February 18, 3102 BCE at 2:27:30 am, based on the Surya siddhanta’s mention that during the change of Yugas, all 7 planets will line up along the elliptic of the Earth’s annual path in the constellation of Pisces, just before Aries on a Phalguni Amavasya day, the last day of the year.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/drishtikone/2010/09/astronomical-proof-mahabharata-war-shri-krishna/

At this point I must confess that I am not an astrologer and so, despite all scholarly research, I am not equipped to give an exact date for the end of the Kurukṣetra War or for the beginning of the age of Kali.

As Bhaktivinoda Thakura put it, “The future swanlike scholars can determine the correct figures after further research.”

But still, I am avoiding your question.

"The Bhagavad Gita mentions this uttarayana motion of the sun but my question is, "which Capricorn, the terrestrial or the celestial one?"

I'm not quite sure of the difference between the "terrestial" and the celestial. It seems that by "celestial" you are referring to the sidereal year. I'm not sure about the distinction here.

I could offer a couple of points:

One point is that the lengthy account of Bhishma's departure from the earth takes place at the end of the book, after the main action of the epic. Most criticism considers much of this section as an interpolation, that is, something that has been added to the work with the accumulation of centuries. Many of the instructions and laws given by Bhishma there are considered to have been added long after the original work had been written by Vyāsa. Accepting this point of view, it might be argued that the astrological references given there correspond to the epoch in which the interpolations were made.
The work as we know was known to the ancient world. Even these interpolations have to be very ancient. The work as we know it cannot possibly be later than the 5th Century, since many ancient poets such as Kalidas refer to Mahabharata and have created subsidiary works based on it.

But it is considered possible and even likely by most critics that the Shanti Parva containing Bhishma's instructions and his death may have be interpolations created not long before the time of Aryabhatta. If that were the case, the Astrological Science prevalent during that time would probably correspond to that of Aryabhatta. If the "sidereal" or celestial  version of Capricorn was prominent at that time, then the interpolated version would square with his calculations.

Since the ancients favored a Ptolemaic view of the universe, it might be best to side with a sidereal version of Capricorn. Again, I'm not the expert here. I leave it to you for homework.

The problem is that while it seems evident that certain aspects of the Mahabharata may be "interpolations" there is no reliable way to determine where or how such interpolations took place.  Nor can one ferret out the so-called insertions. One must take the work as it is, since the moment one begins to apply modern criticism to the work and try to decide which parts may be "later"than others,  the entire work begins to crumble under the pressure.

Another point is that, The Mahabharata is Ithihasa, which means "history." But it is more than history; it is history, legend, myth, religious doctrine, and mystical reality--divine truth. So its meaning may be taken on different levels: as epic, as a work of astrological interest, as an ethical treatise or as the highest metaphysical path to yoga.

While it is difficult to separate the fantastic elements of the Mahabharata from such practical matters as dates and moon cycles I think it's important to focus on its sublime philosophy as seen in the examples of heroes like Bhishma.  So, while his death and the date of his departure from this world are certainly worthy of study, even more important are his example and precept.

-Mahayogi